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Russ
Administrator
United Kingdom
2226 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 00:31:06
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quote:
Originally posted by nix
quote:
Originally posted by kajaboy
I am yet to get any recons and with VHS tapes drying up I better get a move on.
I previously though they drying up too. I know some of the big retailers have announced they've stopped selling VCR's and doctor who isn't released on VHS any more, but there are still a lot of people using VCR's to record (most households have DVD-player not recorder). I have a HDD-rec so don't use my VCR to record programs any more, so haven't bought a tape for the last year or so. I recently went out to buy some for recons, and found them in most places you'd expect. Also found some decent prices - Maxell e180 99p and Sony e180 £1.40
quote:
Originally posted by Russ
quote:
Originally posted by tygerbug
Why are the Elaphe (Elephe?) recons so rarely mentioned when talking about recons? They're newish and all, and they use narrated audio, but I've watched 10 Elephe recons for every Loose Cannon I've seen .... so they're certainly out there ....
These are badly advised recons, they use the narrated audio and also are distributed digitally (directly from source), this is likely to cause problems for all recons as this is what the BBC (apparantly) dislike, Using Mark Ayres cd's is likely to send the man into a lather, turns him green and has him ripping his shirt I believe
This one is a hard one IMO. The fact they are illegally using the copyrighted narrated audios means both that it can disenfranchise the Beeb on the idea of fan-recons and that they have a limited audience (as only available on download sites). If you take the recon's themselves and examine themselves, then whether they are a preference to LC is a personal choice. The audio on them is nice and clear, obviously, and judging by the Space Pirates preview clip on the LC site, newer LC's audio is clearer than the old stuff. I do like the narrated (I know some people don't) especially as peering at the TV to read the moving text on my old LC's is a bit distracting.
However Elaphe recons are purely static telesnaps, where as LC are now putting more movement into scenes. That said we may see more in other recons to follow too. I think elaphe recons can appear clearer because they are not limited to VHS and so can be released in higher resolutions, though this isn't always as straight forward as it might seem as some of the telesnaps used are upscaled versions of smaller images.
I agree the preference of narration is a personal choice, however its inclusion makes the recon (and by inference all recons) more likely to be pulled. There was a guy on here a while ago (Silver Smurfer - Kyron Mallet) who made his own "recons" and proudly used the narrated audio and proclaimed to all who would listen that he was distributing them on YouTube and he had a perfect right to do so etc etc, his YouTube site was shut down, thankfully it had no effect on anyone else but its clear the beeb are watching
The Elaphe recons are very similar to the old JV recons, they rely almost totally on telenaps and the only improvements on the JV ones is the better quality source material and the lack of degredation as they are distributed in a digital format, something which Loose Cannon choose not to do so to minimise the risk. The JV ones were great at the time but a decade ago a lot less was available to include movement than now, even the most basic telesnap recon has potential to include movement with occasional clips or 2D animation, that said they are functional and provide an adequate representation of the story, and of course some people will prefer just the telesnaps
I think Elaphae's recons have dried up, I may be wrong but i haven't heard of a new one in ages (though i don't really look) and i think he has run out of telesnaps now! Non Telesnap stories are a lot more work to produce generally |
Has Doctor Who merchandise gone too far?
NEW Dalek condoms - specially produced so at the crucial moment they say "Halt, or you will be impregnated" |
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Pip
Time Traveller
485 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 05:03:34
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I've certainly not heard anything from Elaphe, although since Demonoid died a few months ago it's not as easy to find newer torrents so it's possible his stuff is being uploaded somewhere else and we just don't know about it. Thinking about it I seem to remember reading something about them being uploaded on Usenet, so in theory he could be carrying on there and they've not made the jump to the torrent sites.
As an aside, is something up with the LC forums? I've been trying to go there for the past week or so, and although the LC website works (so it's displaying the forum header with the links), the forum itself is complaining that 'The requested URL /index.php was not found on this server.' |
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tygerbug
Time Traveller
USA
199 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 07:26:59
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The appeal of Elaphe's recons was for the same reason Loose Cannon would shake its head at them - seeing a recon with clear Mark Ayres sound and clear digital picture is a thing of joy even if the recon itself is just telesnaps and photos. It's a shame that Loose Cannon, which does such great work, has to use the non-Ayres sound and distribute on VHS if it doesn't want to get drop-kicked by the BBC ....
I'm watching the Loose Cannon Daleks' Master Plan right now by the way - great stuff. Great recon. Great story, though it seems to have lost its way in the middle there ..... I wish I'd just skipped "The Feast of Steven" as it was terrible. Well, have to pad it out to 12 episodes somehow ... I'll watch episodes 10-12 tomorrow ....
The last Loose Cannon I saw was The Myth Makers, which is an amazing recon of a great story .... and thankfully I saw it right before Master Plan, so I had story continuity. =)
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toxicspurge
Legendary Time Traveller
USA
6729 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 10:50:25
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| I agree the Feast of Steven is really annoying. Of the missing episodes, it would be the last one I'd miss. |
I'm just sittin' here watching the wheels go 'round and 'round.... |
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nix
Newbie
22 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 13:22:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Russ
I agree the preference of narration is a personal choice, however its inclusion makes the recon (and by inference all recons) more likely to be pulled. There was a guy on here a while ago (Silver Smurfer - Kyron Mallet) who made his own "recons" and proudly used the narrated audio and proclaimed to all who would listen that he was distributing them on YouTube and he had a perfect right to do so etc etc, his YouTube site was shut down, thankfully it had no effect on anyone else but its clear the beeb are watching
Oh the Beeb are watching as they often pull recons down from youTube. They seem to only pull down ones that are using commercially available material e.g. the narrated audio as there seems to be ones there still using fan recorded audio/telesnaps. So I think the Beeb don't view all recons in the same light.
quote:
Originally posted by Russ
The Elaphe recons are very similar to the old JV recons, they rely almost totally on telenaps and the only improvements on the JV ones is the better quality source material and the lack of degredation as they are distributed in a digital format, something which Loose Cannon choose not to do so to minimise the risk. The JV ones were great at the time but a decade ago a lot less was available to include movement than now, even the most basic telesnap recon has potential to include movement with occasional clips or 2D animation, that said they are functional and provide an adequate representation of the story, and of course some people will prefer just the telesnaps
I wasn't aware that LC chose not to go digital and thought it was a forced condition? Mind you VHS is wide spread and most people have VCR's, though I guess that will change.
It is a pity that LC couldn't be digital as you could the descriptions as subtitles and dual audio (a second track with home made narration to replace the subtitles)
quote:
I think Elaphae's recons have dried up, I may be wrong but i haven't heard of a new one in ages (though i don't really look) and i think he has run out of telesnaps now! Non Telesnap stories are a lot more work to produce generally
He's now releasing "upgrades" of existing ones, so it might be that he's run out. I'm not sure what the upgrades are, save a bit of 3D animation before and after the episode. I've got his Faceless Ones and it includes clips taken from LIT, so that too could be what's changed. That though, seems weird because its still using the narrated audio so annoying as you can see the action!!!
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kajaboy
Legendary Time Traveller
United Kingdom
1698 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 13:25:39
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| I like the Feast Of Steven. Its a shame that this has the least chance of turning up. I find it really ammusing. But thats just me I suppose. |
"JN~T's Champion. Just try to complain about Mel, and you will answer to me"
http://www.myspace.com/boysteven |
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nix
Newbie
22 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 14:30:21
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| Does it have the least chance, or more likely almost guaranteed to be the next find LOL |
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kajaboy
Legendary Time Traveller
United Kingdom
1698 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 14:38:36
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quote:
Originally posted by nix
Does it have the least chance, or more likely almost guaranteed to be the next find LOL
I think the fact no prints were made befor the VT was wiped means it has no chance. I'm just waiting now for an off-air copy to turn up. |
"JN~T's Champion. Just try to complain about Mel, and you will answer to me"
http://www.myspace.com/boysteven |
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Russ
Administrator
United Kingdom
2226 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 17:25:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Pip
As an aside, is something up with the LC forums? I've been trying to go there for the past week or so, and although the LC website works (so it's displaying the forum header with the links), the forum itself is complaining that 'The requested URL /index.php was not found on this server.'
Yes, something up with the server or something, we are awaiting it being sorted |
Has Doctor Who merchandise gone too far?
NEW Dalek condoms - specially produced so at the crucial moment they say "Halt, or you will be impregnated" |
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Russ
Administrator
United Kingdom
2226 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 17:32:25
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quote:
It is a pity that LC couldn't be digital as you could the descriptions as subtitles and dual audio (a second track with home made narration to replace the subtitles)
Well I know Mark Ayres extends some periods of inaction to fit extra narration in so how well that would work, even with fresh narration, I don't know, its a moot point anyway as it won't happen or we would go the way of Mr Mallet!
quote:
He's now releasing "upgrades" of existing ones, so it might be that he's run out. I'm not sure what the upgrades are, save a bit of 3D animation before and after the episode. I've got his Faceless Ones and it includes clips taken from LIT, so that too could be what's changed. That though, seems weird because its still using the narrated audio so annoying as you can see the action!!!
Wella basic telesnap recon using the BBCi telesnaps without making any wttempt to clean them and Mark Ayres audio wouldn't take long to do, The LC ones take longer as there is a lot more than that to them, even the basic telesnap ones |
Has Doctor Who merchandise gone too far?
NEW Dalek condoms - specially produced so at the crucial moment they say "Halt, or you will be impregnated" |
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tygerbug
Time Traveller
USA
199 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 18:42:05
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I love it when Loose Cannon takes on stories without much existing material - it's a place where their expertise is much needed.
You're right that Mark Ayres alters the length of the episodes to fit in the narration. I've heard episodes that use the Ayres audio, but reedit it to remove the narration, putting in a heavily noise-reduced version of the raw audio instead. I figure that if someone like Loose Cannon did use the Ayres audio, that's what they'd use.
Also there are a few Ayres episodes out there which have no narration .... the Lost in Time ones as well as several CD releases ... I think Marco Polo and Master Plan are available like this? |
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Russ
Administrator
United Kingdom
2226 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 19:59:25
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quote:
Originally posted by tygerbug
I love it when Loose Cannon takes on stories without much existing material - it's a place where their expertise is much needed.
You're right that Mark Ayres alters the length of the episodes to fit in the narration. I've heard episodes that use the Ayres audio, but reedit it to remove the narration, putting in a heavily noise-reduced version of the raw audio instead. I figure that if someone like Loose Cannon did use the Ayres audio, that's what they'd use.
Also there are a few Ayres episodes out there which have no narration .... the Lost in Time ones as well as several CD releases ... I think Marco Polo and Master Plan are available like this?
They have MP3 releases as bonuses if i remember correctly, also Crusade and Moonbase on Lost in Time, The Ice Warriors cd with the boxset, Tenth Planet VHS and i'm certain i will have forgot some! |
Has Doctor Who merchandise gone too far?
NEW Dalek condoms - specially produced so at the crucial moment they say "Halt, or you will be impregnated" |
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Another Ian
Seasoned Time Traveller
United Kingdom
615 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 20:20:01
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| I think thats the lot, though I suppose you could count Invasion 1 & 4's audio on the animations as well. |
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Russ
Administrator
United Kingdom
2226 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 21:14:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Another Ian
I think thats the lot, though I suppose you could count Invasion 1 & 4's audio on the animations as well.
Don't they have some sound effects added though, IIRC? |
Has Doctor Who merchandise gone too far?
NEW Dalek condoms - specially produced so at the crucial moment they say "Halt, or you will be impregnated" |
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Pip
Time Traveller
485 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 22:54:11
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I thought Cosgrove Hall added some sound effects to go with a shot of the Cybership in episode 1, but Mark Ayres went back to the original soundtrack for the release.
However I believe the soundtrack is edited elsewhere - wasn't the shoot-out with the truck driver and the IE guards tightened up a bit to better accommodate the animation? |
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tygerbug
Time Traveller
USA
199 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2008 : 00:03:36
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Yeah, they cut about a minute from it.
It's difficult to animate action scenes - dialogue is easier to match the timing of. Animation generally has to be quicker than real life.
I suspect anyone animating lost episodes (like, uh, me) would be very tempted to tighten up silent passages to match the generally faster tempo of animation and the difficulty of making slow animation work. |
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Edited by - tygerbug on 19 Jan 2008 00:04:48 |
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Russ
Administrator
United Kingdom
2226 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2008 : 01:00:51
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quote:
Originally posted by tygerbug
Yeah, they cut about a minute from it.
It's difficult to animate action scenes - dialogue is easier to match the timing of. Animation generally has to be quicker than real life.
I suspect anyone animating lost episodes (like, uh, me) would be very tempted to tighten up silent passages to match the generally faster tempo of animation and the difficulty of making slow animation work.
Whilst i fully understand that temptation (belive me, i do!) I think "the audio is king" is the only way to go. It IS the original story |
Has Doctor Who merchandise gone too far?
NEW Dalek condoms - specially produced so at the crucial moment they say "Halt, or you will be impregnated" |
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tygerbug
Time Traveller
USA
199 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2008 : 01:06:41
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| Yes indeed. It's just very hard to animate that kind of thing and I can sympathize with the animation team - if they'd just animated slowly, it would have taken more time and been less exciting I'm sure ..... if they had full Disney style animation that'd be another thing - they could animate at a real human pace - for a lot more money! |
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Aussie who-boy
Legendary Time Traveller
Australia
1490 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 22:01:46
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quote:
Originally posted by kajaboy
I like the Feast Of Steven. Its a shame that this has the least chance of turning up. I find it really ammusing. But thats just me I suppose.
Nothing to do with your name is it????????
I thought that was funny too, though! |
Well! .......That really hits the nail on the head then doesn't it! .......ouch!!! |
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kajaboy
Legendary Time Traveller
United Kingdom
1698 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 22:17:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Aussie who-boy
quote:
Originally posted by kajaboy
I like the Feast Of Steven. Its a shame that this has the least chance of turning up. I find it really ammusing. But thats just me I suppose.
Nothing to do with your name is it????????
I thought that was funny too, though!
No but its always nice to have your name in the title.
Its just a great bit of light relife in the middle of such a dark story. Its so out of th ordinary, which I always like, and is one of the reasons I love this story so much. |
"JN~T's Champion. Just try to complain about Mel, and you will answer to me"
http://www.myspace.com/boysteven |
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tygerbug
Time Traveller
USA
199 Posts |
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blahblah gh
Seasoned Time Traveller
United Kingdom
848 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 09:11:56
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I dont mind feast of steven either Kajaboy. Its a fun enough piece of fluff to drop in the middle of a fairly heavy story. Its entirely appropriate for xmas anyhow.
It is pretty unlikely to turn up judging by the evidence available, but then as I am fond of saying, stranger things have happened before. |
darren gregory is our next sacrifice.......
*Member of the skeptimists club* |
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kajaboy
Legendary Time Traveller
United Kingdom
1698 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 17:26:11
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quote:
Originally posted by tygerbug
Anyway it's full of Arabs.
Um.................What has this got to do with anything? |
"JN~T's Champion. Just try to complain about Mel, and you will answer to me"
http://www.myspace.com/boysteven |
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blahblah gh
Seasoned Time Traveller
United Kingdom
848 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 18:05:20
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| I did sorta scratch my head at that as well tbh.......... |
darren gregory is our next sacrifice.......
*Member of the skeptimists club* |
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kajaboy
Legendary Time Traveller
United Kingdom
1698 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 18:28:41
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Well that aside for a mo....
One of my fave bits is when the Doctor thinks he has seen the charactor listed as Man in Mackintosh befor and then says something like, "Oh yes in the market place in Jaffa". He is of cause refering to Ben Daheer from "The Crusade" both played by Reg Pritchard. Very clever that I thought. |
"JN~T's Champion. Just try to complain about Mel, and you will answer to me"
http://www.myspace.com/boysteven |
Edited by - kajaboy on 24 Jan 2008 18:32:23 |
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Pip
Time Traveller
485 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 19:01:48
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quote:
Originally posted by kajaboy
quote:
Originally posted by tygerbug
Anyway it's full of Arabs.
Um.................What has this got to do with anything?
It's a misquote from the Doctor during the Hollywood bit in Deast of Steven - near the end he claims 'this place is a madhouse... it's all full of Arabs!'
Apparently it was an ad-lib from Hartnell at the time... |
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kajaboy
Legendary Time Traveller
United Kingdom
1698 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 19:14:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Pip
It's a misquote from the Doctor during the Hollywood bit in Deast of Steven - near the end he claims 'this place is a madhouse... it's all full of Arabs!'
Apparently it was an ad-lib from Hartnell at the time...
Oh I see. Can't say I remember that line. |
"JN~T's Champion. Just try to complain about Mel, and you will answer to me"
http://www.myspace.com/boysteven |
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Adam
Legendary Time Traveller
United Kingdom
5094 Posts |
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Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 19:20:25
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New Loose Cannon Release
