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 The Ian Levine Doctor Who Discussion Forum
 Loose Cannon Reconstructions - Official Forum
 Quality of restoration of 1960's 16mm locatio film
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TimM
Junior Time Traveller


United Kingdom
46 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2012 :  13:13:31  Show Profile Send TimM a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Anyone know why on the bbc dvds of 60's Who the filmed location bits
usually look so poor condition even though the videoed studio stuff often has been restored to near-mint - eg The War Games - ?

I know most location was on 16mm not 35 mm -
but surely this shouldn't mean that the restored quality is as mentioned
( eg even the relatively lo-fi sublime "Pogle's Wood" children's UK show
which was on 16mm I believe has better quality location restoration
on those eps which have had restoration - eg the ep called A Paper Tiger)

I know the Who stuff isn't usually from the original sources -
but as mentioned the video scenes seem to shine up far better.

Probably far-fetched - but is it even so they can release future dvds or even blurays
with the selling-point of Now the location bits are fully restored??!

Any thoughts on this anyone?

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gad4
Time Traveller



794 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2012 :  05:59:04  Show Profile Send gad4 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I never really noticed, but my gut is the reason is that it was transferred from 16mm film to video to kinescope film again.
The extra generation could be the cause.

When the original film inserts exist, they actually could be of higher quality.
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Shadow
Time Traveller



Guadeloupe
521 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2012 :  12:21:45  Show Profile Send Shadow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TimM
I know the Who stuff isn't usually from the original sources -
but as mentioned the video scenes seem to shine up far better.

You've really answered your own question here, as gad4 indicates.

All the 1960s episode are film recordings made from the original videotapes of the episodes, so all the film sequences within the episodes are effectively second generation copies, made which are made to look even worse if they weren't recorded in phase to begin with. As a result, they can look a bit grim sometimes.

Compare that to some of the film sequences from The War Machines which were reinstated from the original surviving film recordings which had been retransferred and edited back into the episodes. Those look pristine.
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TimM
Junior Time Traveller



United Kingdom
46 Posts

Posted - 14 Nov 2012 :  14:55:55  Show Profile Send TimM a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks - very helpful.
Yes I remember The Abominable Snowmen ep 2 inserts are amazingly clear
( might even be from the original camera negatives? )

But I'm sure generally the 1970s location work looks in better condition
(than that from the 1960's) even when its from
film copies of the videotapes ( ie the same generation issues ) -
eg look at The Daemons DVD release.

Do you think ( Shadow, Gad4, anyone reading this ) that its possible
they will eventually restore those 60's location film sections ( the ones that don't exist as good quality sources )
to a great condition similar to the restored videotape elements?

And is this a matter of time/resources or more a technical issue that may be resolved at some point?
(just like vidfire & then chromadot recovery made great advances )

& if so would that be enough (given sometimes these are quite brief parts of an adventure )
to give rise to new special editions ( or even bluray edition if they have the original film footage ) ?
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Frankymole
Time Traveller

173 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2013 :  08:00:04  Show Profile Send Frankymole a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, a lot of the filmed bits are out of phase.
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gad4
Time Traveller



794 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2013 :  05:06:43  Show Profile Send gad4 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When they have the original film inserts they usually use it on the dvd release.
To make a bluray release for a few minutes of footage when everything else is video quality would not be a significant increase.
The only exception appears to be Spearhead in Space which was shot entirely on film which still exists. There are talks about that one coming out on bluray.
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jtowne
Junior Time Traveller



90 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2013 :  04:07:06  Show Profile Send jtowne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gad4
The only exception appears to be Spearhead in Space which was shot entirely on film which still exists. There are talks about that one coming out on bluray.



Confirmed now, even
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gad4
Time Traveller



794 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2013 :  20:09:16  Show Profile Send gad4 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wouldnt it be amazing if they included any original film location inserts from the other stories in HD as an extra?
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