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dhandley
Administrator


United Kingdom
199 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2011 :  19:49:45  Show Profile Send dhandley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The wonderfully talented Iz Skinner has posted an 'Alien' style teaser trailer for Wheel in Space:

You must be logged in to see this link.

This is just a selection of the cips she has animated for the new recon.

Derek

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Spartacus_Mills
Time Traveller

441 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2011 :  19:55:58  Show Profile Send Spartacus_Mills a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dhandley

The wonderfully talented Iz Skinner has posted an 'Alien' style teaser trailer for Wheel in Space:

You must be logged in to see this link.

This is just a selection of the cips she has animated for the new recon.



She really is mustard. I still have as a favourite her "Alien" one from last year.
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Ian Levine
The Consultant



United Kingdom
7308 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2011 :  20:53:20  Show Profile  Visit Ian Levine's Homepage Send Ian Levine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dhandley

The wonderfully talented Iz Skinner has posted an 'Alien' style teaser trailer for Wheel in Space:

You must be logged in to see this link.

This is just a selection of the cips she has animated for the new recon.




Simply stunning and breathtaking.

I hand delivered the full version to the very very highest person at BBC Worldwide, but tragically they rejected it.

This is their exact quote -

"Dear Ian,

Thank you very much for your suggestions regarding animated reconstructions of the BBC's lost television episodes, and for the link below and the five demonstration discs that you sent me.

BBC Audiobooks (now AudioGO) have produced a wonderful range of audio titles which have proved creatively, to be a successful secondary option to having the episodes themselves and with this in mind we do not feel that reconstructions using telesnaps would fit within our current range of Doctor Who publishing.

I'm afraid we will not be able to take your suggestions forward" -

Fiona Eastwood - 16 December 2010.


This is an exact quote. I offer no comment on it, because what would be the point, I merely offer it up for people to judge its wisdom, and the astonishing attitude of the Creative Director in charge of Doctor Who at BBC Worldwide, for themselves.

Again, I repeat that I offer no comment, neither negative or positive. I merely offer up the facts and allow people to make their own judgment. I have no wish to alienate the BBC but still I do feel that people should know all the same.

There will always be 106 episodes missing. Last year like a fool I stupidly fell for the rumours of finding 43 missing episodes but as usual it's all bull.

Edited by - Ian Levine on 01 Jan 2011 20:54:47
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Fatso the wombat
Administrator



United Kingdom
4744 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2011 :  22:09:12  Show Profile  Visit Fatso the wombat's Homepage Send Fatso the wombat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
*sigh*

I don't know what to say. Really, I don't...

Regards,

Ash Stewart


My website. Now with extra added Blog... Updated February 2013 ("...life depends on change, and renewal...")
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Ian Levine
The Consultant



United Kingdom
7308 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2011 :  22:25:11  Show Profile  Visit Ian Levine's Homepage Send Ian Levine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fatso the wombat

*sigh*

I don't know what to say. Really, I don't...



Because of the two projects I am working on, it would be suicidal for me to comment at the moment.

That doesn't stop anyone else from passing comment though.

There will always be 106 episodes missing. Last year like a fool I stupidly fell for the rumours of finding 43 missing episodes but as usual it's all bull.
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Fatso the wombat
Administrator



United Kingdom
4744 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2011 :  10:10:18  Show Profile  Visit Fatso the wombat's Homepage Send Fatso the wombat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You would think that a business such as BBC Worldwide would always be on the lookout for new and different ways to exploit the assets they have. With the recons, distributed via iTunes, you have a new market that they've not been in before. Given that the raw product - the recons themselves - are essentially handed to them on a plate, you would think that it would be an obvious route of action to at least put one of them up on iTunes to gauge the interest. The costs, and thus risks, of doing so being somewhat less than releasing it on physical media.

ITunes recons would be a great complement to the existing ranges; let's not forget, as well as the releases of the narrated audios, there are also readings of the Target novelisations. Recons would enrich this range, giving an experience closer to watching the original episodes.

And the thing is, recons work well on an iPod. They are suited to the screen size (although the one thing I would say is to get rid of all scrolling text, and just stick to static captions).

Regards,

Ash Stewart


My website. Now with extra added Blog... Updated February 2013 ("...life depends on change, and renewal...")
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Ian Levine
The Consultant



United Kingdom
7308 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2011 :  10:12:49  Show Profile  Visit Ian Levine's Homepage Send Ian Levine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fatso the wombat

You would think that a business such as BBC Worldwide would always be on the lookout for new and different ways to exploit the assets they have. With the recons, distributed via iTunes, you have a new market that they've not been in before. Given that the raw product - the recons themselves - are essentially handed to them on a plate, you would think that it would be an obvious route of action to at least put one of them up on iTunes to gauge the interest. The costs, and thus risks, of doing so being somewhat less than releasing it on physical media.

ITunes recons would be a great complement to the existing ranges; let's not forget, as well as the releases of the narrated audios, there are also readings of the Target novelisations. Recons would enrich this range, giving an experience closer to watching the original episodes.

And the thing is, recons work well on an iPod. They are suited to the screen size (although the one thing I would say is to get rid of all scrolling text, and just stick to static captions).



All this is logical.
But all this goes out the window if one person simply doesn't like them.

There will always be 106 episodes missing. Last year like a fool I stupidly fell for the rumours of finding 43 missing episodes but as usual it's all bull.
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pootle
Newbie



United Kingdom
8 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2011 :  10:13:23  Show Profile Send pootle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't think any of us 'need' to comment Ian.
We are all thinking the same thing.
It's a shame as the revenue I expect you'd make from such a venture would be ploughed back into making more :(

I think what Fiona Eastwoods letter actually says is "We want to get as much money from the audio releases as we can, and if we simultaneously run telesnap reconstructions, then people would be more likely to buy those and we would lose revenue. Come back to us in five years when it's all dried up, and we can use you, er I mean them, to make us some more cash by re-selling those episodes once more...."

Anyway. Despite BBC Worldwides' rejection, I think 2011 is going to be great year for us all anyway, courtesy of yourself and your Shada project :)
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Ian Levine
The Consultant



United Kingdom
7308 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2011 :  10:14:15  Show Profile  Visit Ian Levine's Homepage Send Ian Levine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fatso the wombat
let's not forget, as well as the releases of the narrated audios, there are also readings of the Target novelisations.



Or maybe those in charge at BBC Audio have made a monstrous fuss because they don't want to lose their monopoly.

Something fishy is going on.

There will always be 106 episodes missing. Last year like a fool I stupidly fell for the rumours of finding 43 missing episodes but as usual it's all bull.
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Russ
Head Administrator



United Kingdom
3588 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2011 :  16:45:31  Show Profile Send Russ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Apart from re releasing the already released missing audios as boxsets they aren't releasing narrated audios any more, just the readings of novels, i suspect "some" people/person within Worldwide simply don't think there is a market or it will interfere with potential animations for 2E or one of the other reasons with have benn mooted then usually withdrawn

Wonder what happened to those stories animations were being worked on as mentioned by Dan Hall when there was a furore about the G4 recon? They seem to be a while coming, i imagine i could have animated a story myself usingmagic markers by now!!!! Anyone would think there were no animations and it was just said as a sop to the baying masses!

www.recons.com
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Ian Levine
The Consultant



United Kingdom
7308 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2011 :  17:53:36  Show Profile  Visit Ian Levine's Homepage Send Ian Levine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Russ
Anyone would think there were no animations and it was just said as a sop to the baying masses!



"You may well indeed think that but I couldn't possibly comment"

There will always be 106 episodes missing. Last year like a fool I stupidly fell for the rumours of finding 43 missing episodes but as usual it's all bull.
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Ian Levine
The Consultant



United Kingdom
7308 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2011 :  17:55:32  Show Profile  Visit Ian Levine's Homepage Send Ian Levine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Russ

Apart from re releasing the already released missing audios as boxsets they aren't releasing narrated audios any more, just the readings of novels, i suspect "some" people/person within Worldwide simply don't think there is a market or it will interfere with potential animations for 2E or one of the other reasons with have benn mooted then usually withdrawn



"Dear Ian,

Thank you very much for your suggestions regarding animated reconstructions of the BBC's lost television episodes, and for the link below and the five demonstration discs that you sent me.

BBC Audiobooks (now AudioGO) have produced a wonderful range of audio titles which have proved creatively, to be a successful secondary option to having the episodes themselves and with this in mind we do not feel that reconstructions using telesnaps would fit within our current range of Doctor Who publishing.

I'm afraid we will not be able to take your suggestions forward" -

Fiona Eastwood - 16 December 2010.

There will always be 106 episodes missing. Last year like a fool I stupidly fell for the rumours of finding 43 missing episodes but as usual it's all bull.
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Ian Levine
The Consultant



United Kingdom
7308 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2011 :  13:04:28  Show Profile  Visit Ian Levine's Homepage Send Ian Levine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
2200 views in 36 hours.

That's pretty damn impressive.

Pity the BBC won't listen.

There will always be 106 episodes missing. Last year like a fool I stupidly fell for the rumours of finding 43 missing episodes but as usual it's all bull.
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fxgopher
Junior Time Traveller



United Kingdom
32 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2011 :  14:21:54  Show Profile Send fxgopher a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It is such a shame Ian, I thought it was amazing - even human oid forms, which can be so tricky to make believeable looked really good.
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Another Ian
Time Traveller



United Kingdom
983 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2011 :  14:44:22  Show Profile Send Another Ian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Russ

Apart from re releasing the already released missing audios as boxsets they aren't releasing narrated audios any more, just the readings of novels


And thats just it, the boxsets are just rereleases, they could have done a much better job, cleaning them up further, presenting more unnarrated episodes as MP3s (they've even removed the Marco Polo ones!) Telesnaps, clips, but they didn't - they had the perfect 2nd chance to improve things but chose not to. Or rather decided not to spend any more money on them.

The best I would hope for would be Marca Terror to get a detailed Hines narration - at least it would match then.

The Target range is interesting - apparently they got David Fisher to write a new adaption of Stones Of Blood!

Shove that in your canon.
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Ian Levine
The Consultant



United Kingdom
7308 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2011 :  11:31:05  Show Profile  Visit Ian Levine's Homepage Send Ian Levine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Another Ian

And thats just it, the boxsets are just rereleases, they could have done a much better job, cleaning them up further, presenting more unnarrated episodes as MP3s (they've even removed the Marco Polo ones!) Telesnaps, clips, but they didn't - they had the perfect 2nd chance to improve things but chose not to. Or rather decided not to spend any more money on them.

The best I would hope for would be Marca Terror to get a detailed Hines narration - at least it would match then.




I HATE the bloody narrated audios. I mean REALLY REALLY hate them. And even worse is those amateur fans who have tried to do recons on YouTube using them. Makes my bloody flesh crawl. UGGGHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There will always be 106 episodes missing. Last year like a fool I stupidly fell for the rumours of finding 43 missing episodes but as usual it's all bull.
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Russ
Head Administrator



United Kingdom
3588 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2011 :  11:49:08  Show Profile Send Russ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Levine

quote:
Originally posted by Another Ian

And thats just it, the boxsets are just rereleases, they could have done a much better job, cleaning them up further, presenting more unnarrated episodes as MP3s (they've even removed the Marco Polo ones!) Telesnaps, clips, but they didn't - they had the perfect 2nd chance to improve things but chose not to. Or rather decided not to spend any more money on them.

The best I would hope for would be Marca Terror to get a detailed Hines narration - at least it would match then.




I HATE the bloody narrated audios. I mean REALLY REALLY hate them. And even worse is those amateur fans who have tried to do recons on YouTube using them. Makes my bloody flesh crawl. UGGGHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I don't, i enjoy listening to them in the car or at the gym, however i wouldn't want to sit and watch them like i would a normal story, for me they are a different medium and i enjoy both, for me recons are the best way to enjoy the story if i want to WATCH it, if my situation is limited (by driving for example) i can enjoy them in the more limited form, indeed i own the releases they have done of existing stories and enjoy them too

www.recons.com
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Another Ian
Time Traveller



United Kingdom
983 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2011 :  12:21:04  Show Profile Send Another Ian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Levine
I HATE the bloody narrated audios. I mean REALLY REALLY hate them.


Of course you hate them - you have a clear idea of what's going on - but it doesn't mean they don't have a purpose to serve to a wider audience. Much like any caption on a recon. Of course they should avaibile without them too, they missed the perfect chance to put things right with these rereleases.

As for those 'recons' well at least there are newer fans cutting their teeth, interested in doing recons. I assume most don't have access to the unnarrated copies - its do them with narrated or nothing. The fact no one pounces on them for using the BBC audio makes me think Loose Cannon should just try going on You Tube too.

Shove that in your canon.
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Ian Levine
The Consultant



United Kingdom
7308 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2011 :  10:50:10  Show Profile  Visit Ian Levine's Homepage Send Ian Levine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Another Ian
The fact no one pounces on them for using the BBC audio makes me think Loose Cannon should just try going on You Tube too.



I don't think it's fair of anyone to expect them to take such a reckless risk.

There will always be 106 episodes missing. Last year like a fool I stupidly fell for the rumours of finding 43 missing episodes but as usual it's all bull.
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ianj
Seasoned Time Traveller



United Kingdom
3183 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2011 :  14:30:11  Show Profile Send ianj a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can't see the BBC paying out for anything to do with DW that wasnt sanctioned by them via internal or partner budgets etc. DW is just one of many programmes packaged up and sold all around the World ( after we've already paid for them via the licence fee)--and the BBC are bleating now there is no licence increment and they have to cut costs dramatically here in the U.K.; the licence money income has taken a nosedive with record numbers of non-licence fee payers in the U.K.; and concerning the recons, if the Recon guys put the recons onto Youtube, the bbc would stamp on them. As it is, they fly under the radar, and thats how they will have to stay.

Edited by - ianj on 05 Jan 2011 17:00:38
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Fatso the wombat
Administrator



United Kingdom
4744 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2011 :  19:27:34  Show Profile  Visit Fatso the wombat's Homepage Send Fatso the wombat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The BBC would be better off being funded (at the same level) by a slight rise in income tax. This would then completely do away with the need for TV licences, and the massive bureaucracy needed to administer this, and to deal with non-payment.

Regards,

Ash Stewart


My website. Now with extra added Blog... Updated February 2013 ("...life depends on change, and renewal...")
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The Black Guardian
Seasoned Time Traveller



USA
1333 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2011 :  21:33:45  Show Profile Send The Black Guardian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fatso the wombat

*sigh*

I don't know what to say. Really, I don't...





Neither do I. What exactly do they want? What is their definition of quality, or does that definition change whichever way the wind blows? I have a feeling that Ian Levine is going to be handed a ton of red tape when he submits his finished projects for release. Let's just say that Ian was able to animate all 108 lost episodes in the same quality we saw in The Invasion, or even better quality. Would they be accepted? Wouldn't his animated episodes hurt the sales of the narrated audios? If somebody were to animate the episodes, BBC Audio could be taking a financial hit with that type of competition.


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Ian Levine
The Consultant



United Kingdom
7308 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2011 :  23:04:02  Show Profile  Visit Ian Levine's Homepage Send Ian Levine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Black Guardian
Let's just say that Ian was able to animate all 108 lost episodes in the same quality we saw in The Invasion, or even better quality.



I am able.

There will always be 106 episodes missing. Last year like a fool I stupidly fell for the rumours of finding 43 missing episodes but as usual it's all bull.
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Wooders
Time Traveller

290 Posts

Posted - 06 Jan 2011 :  00:52:01  Show Profile  Visit Wooders's Homepage Send Wooders a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That YouTube trailer is utterly incredible. 2E do NOT have the power, contacts or passion to create such a quality of recon.

It's the best CGI recon I've ever seen. They're complete fools to turn it down. I cannot sigh enough.
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The Black Guardian
Seasoned Time Traveller



USA
1333 Posts

Posted - 06 Jan 2011 :  03:54:46  Show Profile Send The Black Guardian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Levine

quote:
Originally posted by The Black Guardian
Let's just say that Ian was able to animate all 108 lost episodes in the same quality we saw in The Invasion, or even better quality.



I am able.




I don't doubt your talents, Sir. But if they are interested in holding a monopoly on the audios, could that be a reason why they seem to be against everybody that has submitted animation tests and proposals since The Invasion came out? If you were to animate several classic Hartnell and Troughton stories, that would really cut into audio sales of those stories. They could see you as more of a threat to the so called establishment. As you say, something smells fishy here. I hope you can cut through the politics and the red tape that you will encounter. I wish you all the best in your projects, Sir.
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Shadow
Time Traveller



Guadeloupe
521 Posts

Posted - 06 Jan 2011 :  08:04:14  Show Profile Send Shadow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by WoodersIt's the best CGI recon I've ever seen. They're complete fools to turn it down. I cannot sigh enough.


But this isn't a CGI recon though. It's a recon with bits of CG in it, just like Evil of the Daleks. Different thing.
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Ian Levine
The Consultant



United Kingdom
7308 Posts

Posted - 06 Jan 2011 :  10:34:06  Show Profile  Visit Ian Levine's Homepage Send Ian Levine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Black Guardian


I don't doubt your talents, Sir. But if they are interested in holding a monopoly on the audios, could that be a reason why they seem to be against everybody that has submitted animation tests and proposals since The Invasion came out? If you were to animate several classic Hartnell and Troughton stories, that would really cut into audio sales of those stories. They could see you as more of a threat to the so called establishment.



They could indeed.
Worrying, isn't it.

There will always be 106 episodes missing. Last year like a fool I stupidly fell for the rumours of finding 43 missing episodes but as usual it's all bull.
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Ian Levine
The Consultant



United Kingdom
7308 Posts

Posted - 06 Jan 2011 :  10:35:10  Show Profile  Visit Ian Levine's Homepage Send Ian Levine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadow

But this isn't a CGI recon though. It's a recon with bits of CG in it, just like Evil of the Daleks. Different thing.



No, my dear Shadow.
It's a recon with LOTS of CGI in it.

There will always be 106 episodes missing. Last year like a fool I stupidly fell for the rumours of finding 43 missing episodes but as usual it's all bull.
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dhandley
Administrator



United Kingdom
199 Posts

Posted - 06 Jan 2011 :  11:15:11  Show Profile Send dhandley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Black Guardian

quote:
Originally posted by Ian Levine

quote:
Originally posted by The Black Guardian
Let's just say that Ian was able to animate all 108 lost episodes in the same quality we saw in The Invasion, or even better quality.



I am able.




I don't doubt your talents, Sir. But if they are interested in holding a monopoly on the audios, could that be a reason why they seem to be against everybody that has submitted animation tests and proposals since The Invasion came out? If you were to animate several classic Hartnell and Troughton stories, that would really cut into audio sales of those stories. They could see you as more of a threat to the so called establishment. As you say, something smells fishy here. I hope you can cut through the politics and the red tape that you will encounter. I wish you all the best in your projects, Sir.



I really wonder how many more sales they are likely to get of the audios though. Most fans that want them will have bought them individually when they were first released, those that didn't get them then will probably get the box sets they are releasing at the moment, but I don't expect these will sell huge numbers because most people, like me, will already have them.
They really should be thinking now about how to market the missing episodes in the future. Really their only choice is animation or recons.

Derek
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Shadow
Time Traveller



Guadeloupe
521 Posts

Posted - 06 Jan 2011 :  11:49:02  Show Profile Send Shadow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Levine
No, my dear Shadow.
It's a recon with LOTS of CGI in it.


What, realisticly, is "lots", Ian?
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Ian Levine
The Consultant



United Kingdom
7308 Posts

Posted - 06 Jan 2011 :  13:35:22  Show Profile  Visit Ian Levine's Homepage Send Ian Levine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadow

What, realisticly, is "lots", Ian?


Probably nearly fifty per cent of episode one.

There will always be 106 episodes missing. Last year like a fool I stupidly fell for the rumours of finding 43 missing episodes but as usual it's all bull.
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